1 00:00:07,549 --> 00:00:09,968 Hey, guys, as you may have seen, 2 00:00:10,051 --> 00:00:13,805 my name has been associated with an Ashley Madison account. 3 00:00:16,057 --> 00:00:18,184 This was brought to my wife's attention. 4 00:00:18,268 --> 00:00:21,354 She has forgiven me for this, uh, mistake that I made. 5 00:00:21,438 --> 00:00:26,443 I never had an affair with anybody, ever, while I've been married with Nia. 6 00:00:26,943 --> 00:00:27,943 Um... 7 00:00:29,446 --> 00:00:30,446 Gosh. 8 00:00:31,531 --> 00:00:32,949 So dumb, man. 9 00:00:34,117 --> 00:00:36,197 Was that true, what you said in the video? 10 00:00:37,579 --> 00:00:41,958 No, what I said in the video was mostly... Pretty much all lies. 11 00:00:43,126 --> 00:00:45,462 It was just like, "Protect yourself, man." 12 00:00:46,337 --> 00:00:50,717 This is what the atonement's all about, forgiveness and second chances. 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,635 And I just wanna add too, guys, 14 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:55,472 I have forgiven Sam, and I stand behind him. 15 00:00:55,555 --> 00:00:56,765 This is in our past. 16 00:00:56,848 --> 00:00:59,225 It's unfortunate that it's being dug up right now, 17 00:00:59,309 --> 00:01:03,563 but our marriage is worth fighting for, and it always will be. 18 00:01:04,355 --> 00:01:08,485 {\an8}Ah, I'm... I'm just like a little shocked after watching it, to be honest. 19 00:01:08,568 --> 00:01:10,695 I'm like, "Whoa." Took me back for a minute. 20 00:01:13,907 --> 00:01:18,369 I look at me in that video, and I see a naive, hopeful... 21 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,120 um... 22 00:01:20,455 --> 00:01:22,832 kind of blinded girl. 23 00:01:23,416 --> 00:01:26,795 {\an8}It's really strange, like, knowing 24 00:01:26,878 --> 00:01:30,673 {\an8}that hours later I'm gonna think totally opposite. 25 00:01:50,110 --> 00:01:54,531 {\an8}Watch out, cheaters, or anybody who used the website Ashley Madison. 26 00:01:55,782 --> 00:01:58,284 {\an8}Hackers released thousands of e-mail addresses 27 00:01:58,368 --> 00:02:02,038 {\an8}and very private information on the dark web for everybody to see. 28 00:02:02,122 --> 00:02:05,208 {\an8}This is a horrendous and horrific invasion of privacy, 29 00:02:05,291 --> 00:02:06,918 {\an8}and it's very dangerous. 30 00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:13,716 This was a difficult time to navigate. 31 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,678 {\an8}We had the exec team, who were so swamped 32 00:02:18,096 --> 00:02:21,850 that they didn't really have time to answer our questions. 33 00:02:22,475 --> 00:02:24,727 We still didn't know who was responsible. 34 00:02:26,604 --> 00:02:28,314 The theories were all over the place. 35 00:02:29,357 --> 00:02:31,151 Maybe it was a competitor. 36 00:02:31,651 --> 00:02:33,653 Maybe it was a... a jilted wife. 37 00:02:34,737 --> 00:02:36,281 Cheating husband. 38 00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:38,491 A disgruntled employee. 39 00:02:39,617 --> 00:02:42,829 {\an8}To be honest, I also thought it could be an anti-Semite 40 00:02:42,912 --> 00:02:46,082 {\an8}because of some of the threats Noel had received. 41 00:02:46,833 --> 00:02:48,001 The Impact Team, 42 00:02:48,084 --> 00:02:52,547 they sound like people who've been judging people for a long time, 43 00:02:52,630 --> 00:02:56,551 and in this country and in most countries, they tend to be fundamentalists. 44 00:02:56,634 --> 00:02:59,053 Theories are as wild as they come. 45 00:03:04,851 --> 00:03:07,312 The media interest was crazy around the world. 46 00:03:07,395 --> 00:03:10,648 We've all heard of that naughty website Ashley Madison. 47 00:03:10,732 --> 00:03:12,775 - Ashley Madison. - Ashley Madison. 48 00:03:14,819 --> 00:03:16,738 AshleyMadison.com. 49 00:03:16,821 --> 00:03:21,367 {\an8}The dating website that caters to people looking for extramarital affairs. 50 00:03:21,993 --> 00:03:24,370 {\an8}Press talking about Ashley Madison, 51 00:03:24,454 --> 00:03:27,790 {\an8}that was a lot of publicity for the company. 52 00:03:27,874 --> 00:03:30,960 My thinking was, maybe this was a publicity stunt. 53 00:03:32,253 --> 00:03:35,381 {\an8}Okay, is the company responsible for this? 54 00:03:37,050 --> 00:03:40,345 And even Noel was, for me, a suspect. 55 00:03:40,970 --> 00:03:46,976 {\an8}Noel, he just seemed like he might have had 56 00:03:47,852 --> 00:03:48,852 many secrets. 57 00:03:58,863 --> 00:04:02,575 When we were in the middle of all this frenzy, 58 00:04:02,659 --> 00:04:05,286 Noel stopped showing up to the office. 59 00:04:05,370 --> 00:04:07,247 It felt unnerving 60 00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:11,459 that the very head of the company is not around 61 00:04:11,542 --> 00:04:14,587 to sort of steer the ship through this crisis. 62 00:04:15,171 --> 00:04:17,090 People were freaking out. 63 00:04:17,632 --> 00:04:21,135 At that point, I thought it couldn't get any worse. 64 00:04:21,719 --> 00:04:24,055 And then the shit really hit the fan. 65 00:04:27,141 --> 00:04:29,811 {\an8}Now the Ashley Madison hack, well, getting worse. 66 00:04:29,894 --> 00:04:33,898 {\an8}Hackers releasing yet another data dump, this one larger than the last. 67 00:04:33,982 --> 00:04:36,859 Hackers releasing a second mountain of data 68 00:04:36,943 --> 00:04:40,280 just days after posting tens of millions of e-mail addresses. 69 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,409 The Impact Team struck again, 70 00:04:44,909 --> 00:04:48,538 and they dumped an even larger cache of files. 71 00:04:48,621 --> 00:04:51,374 {\an8}Close to 20 gigabytes of data. 72 00:04:51,457 --> 00:04:54,043 {\an8}Intellectual property, trade secrets. 73 00:04:54,877 --> 00:05:00,091 {\an8}Internal documents, files, spreadsheets, floor plans. 74 00:05:00,174 --> 00:05:03,720 {\an8}Everything a company does not want about itself 75 00:05:03,803 --> 00:05:06,055 {\an8}broadcast for anybody on the Internet to download. 76 00:05:06,139 --> 00:05:10,059 The second wave appears to include a massive amount of e-mails 77 00:05:10,143 --> 00:05:12,478 from CEO Noel Biderman. 78 00:05:12,979 --> 00:05:16,107 Noel's entire personal and work e-mail inboxes 79 00:05:16,190 --> 00:05:19,027 for years going back were dumped online. 80 00:05:20,111 --> 00:05:23,364 As a journalist, my first thought is, 81 00:05:23,448 --> 00:05:26,200 {\an8}"Let me get my hands on them. I wanna look through them." 82 00:05:26,951 --> 00:05:29,370 It was his whole e-mail account. 83 00:05:29,454 --> 00:05:31,331 I think he knew at that point 84 00:05:31,414 --> 00:05:34,792 how dangerous it would be if they were released. 85 00:05:34,876 --> 00:05:38,588 {\an8}This is, ya know, some real serious personal information. 86 00:05:39,422 --> 00:05:41,924 This has the potential to be one of the messiest 87 00:05:42,008 --> 00:05:44,969 and most legally troublesome data dumps in history. 88 00:05:53,644 --> 00:05:55,938 We're being greeted by fans right away, guys. 89 00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:59,108 {\an8}After we posted the forgiven video, it was the next day, 90 00:05:59,192 --> 00:06:01,944 {\an8}we woke up and pretended like nothing ever happened. 91 00:06:02,028 --> 00:06:05,365 This is Vlogger Fair, guys. This is what it looks like. 92 00:06:05,448 --> 00:06:07,992 {\an8}So we went to Vlogger Fair on the second day, 93 00:06:08,076 --> 00:06:11,704 {\an8}and a lot of the embarrassment had washed away from me. 94 00:06:11,788 --> 00:06:13,706 He's been so sweet to me the last few days. 95 00:06:13,790 --> 00:06:18,086 It felt like there was an understanding that a man could be curious, you know? 96 00:06:18,169 --> 00:06:22,131 Yeah, you did somethin' dumb, and you're gonna say sorry. 97 00:06:23,758 --> 00:06:27,136 I kinda had this feeling inside like, "It is all going to be okay." 98 00:06:27,637 --> 00:06:28,679 I was really sure 99 00:06:28,763 --> 00:06:32,141 that he really didn't cheat on me or have an affair. 100 00:06:32,225 --> 00:06:34,227 - Yeah. - Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. 101 00:06:39,273 --> 00:06:41,401 We left Vlogger Fair. 102 00:06:43,778 --> 00:06:46,948 I remember our family text-message thread was kinda goin' off. 103 00:06:47,031 --> 00:06:48,866 I wasn't keeping up with it very well. 104 00:06:48,950 --> 00:06:51,702 But I did notice a text from one of the brothers saying, 105 00:06:51,786 --> 00:06:54,205 "Sammy, you have to be fully honest." 106 00:06:54,914 --> 00:06:57,583 And my wife is like, "What is he talking about?" 107 00:06:58,501 --> 00:07:01,170 I'm like, "He's just tryin' to start crap. Just ignore it." 108 00:07:01,671 --> 00:07:03,381 "No idea what he's talking about." 109 00:07:05,842 --> 00:07:06,842 I was thinking. 110 00:07:07,635 --> 00:07:10,555 I was sittin' next to this woman that I loved so much, 111 00:07:10,638 --> 00:07:12,640 and I was still having to lie to her. 112 00:07:13,224 --> 00:07:16,269 I was keeping a lot of secrets from Nia. 113 00:07:17,103 --> 00:07:22,066 The secrets I were keeping from her went a lot deeper than Ashley Madison, 114 00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:23,860 and a lot further back. 115 00:07:25,528 --> 00:07:28,698 My intention was to go to my grave with this and not tell her. 116 00:07:31,576 --> 00:07:34,370 Again, she asked me, "What is your brother talkin' about?" 117 00:07:34,871 --> 00:07:38,291 I remember that really frustrating me. I was just like, "Come on!" 118 00:07:39,125 --> 00:07:40,543 I was in a panic. 119 00:07:40,626 --> 00:07:43,296 Everything was toppling on top of me. 120 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:49,218 I said, "I'm gonna pull over for a minute." 121 00:07:51,345 --> 00:07:54,724 Sam got out of the car. I didn't know what was going on. 122 00:07:55,516 --> 00:07:57,018 I called my pastor, 123 00:07:57,727 --> 00:08:00,021 who's also a good friend of mine. 124 00:08:00,104 --> 00:08:05,485 {\an8}I answer, and then Sam is letting me know that something terrible has happened. 125 00:08:07,153 --> 00:08:09,572 Hearing his shame and embarrassment, 126 00:08:10,531 --> 00:08:13,576 he knows that his life is about to explode. 127 00:08:15,244 --> 00:08:18,956 I'm starting to realize a little bit that I gotta tell Nia something else, 128 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,625 and I desperately don't want to, 129 00:08:20,708 --> 00:08:23,586 and I want to hear my pastor tell me that I don't have to 130 00:08:23,669 --> 00:08:25,671 and that we can keep it between us. 131 00:08:26,255 --> 00:08:29,717 I said, "This is what living in dishonesty has brought you." 132 00:08:31,636 --> 00:08:34,013 Now you need to live in truth. 133 00:08:35,723 --> 00:08:37,517 I was like, "Oh man." 134 00:08:38,142 --> 00:08:40,937 That was the, uh, the tipping point. 135 00:08:41,604 --> 00:08:47,193 I knew that in order to stop lying I had to confess the truth of the past. 136 00:08:50,363 --> 00:08:52,490 Eventually Sam got back in the car. 137 00:08:53,241 --> 00:08:54,241 And he was like, 138 00:08:55,743 --> 00:08:57,662 "I have a lot more to tell you." 139 00:08:59,288 --> 00:09:00,957 "And it's not good." 140 00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:07,421 Ashley Madison is scrambling to deal with 141 00:09:07,505 --> 00:09:10,424 the release of more confidential material. 142 00:09:10,508 --> 00:09:14,512 The hackers also releasing the contents of Biderman's own e-mails. 143 00:09:15,638 --> 00:09:18,891 I got really excited when I heard they were gonna expose his e-mails. 144 00:09:18,975 --> 00:09:22,520 Oh my gosh, I could not wait to see the stuff that they were gonna release. 145 00:09:24,939 --> 00:09:27,525 {\an8}I used to be a former adult entertainer. 146 00:09:27,608 --> 00:09:28,651 Oh my. 147 00:09:29,610 --> 00:09:33,030 My pistachio for the world to see. 148 00:09:33,531 --> 00:09:35,866 - Pistachio? - Pistachio. 149 00:09:37,243 --> 00:09:39,370 You're welcome. You won't be able to forget it. 150 00:09:40,329 --> 00:09:45,334 {\an8}Here comes Michelle McGee, a tattoo model who has sold a story to In Touch magazine. 151 00:09:45,418 --> 00:09:49,088 {\an8}People generally know me from the scandal with Jesse James and Sandra Bullock. 152 00:09:49,171 --> 00:09:51,632 {\an8}Five weeks of nonstop sex... 153 00:09:51,716 --> 00:09:53,968 {\an8}I had an affair with Jesse James. 154 00:09:54,051 --> 00:09:55,595 {\an8}It was all over the media. 155 00:09:56,220 --> 00:09:58,222 Ashley Madison reached out. 156 00:09:59,515 --> 00:10:02,643 They thought we could do some cross-promotional work. 157 00:10:02,727 --> 00:10:04,604 {\an8}They were gonna put me out there 158 00:10:04,687 --> 00:10:08,316 {\an8}as, ya know, the mistress, the villain, the cheater that breaks up marriages. 159 00:10:11,902 --> 00:10:14,655 The first time I met Noel, he came in with his family, 160 00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:19,076 and he had the impression of being very clean-cut, 161 00:10:20,119 --> 00:10:21,871 very straight, very conservative. 162 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,460 But when the family left, the real Noel kinda came out. 163 00:10:29,211 --> 00:10:31,088 I don't really think he's a good person. 164 00:10:32,256 --> 00:10:35,176 I think Noel has many faces, 165 00:10:35,259 --> 00:10:38,763 and he knew what was gonna be released in his e-mails, 166 00:10:39,472 --> 00:10:41,265 what he was trying to hide from people. 167 00:10:42,224 --> 00:10:44,977 He must have been shitting himself. 168 00:10:45,061 --> 00:10:47,938 Thinking, "If they start digging, they'll find the real Noel." 169 00:10:50,232 --> 00:10:53,361 When I downloaded the e-mails and was about to look through them, 170 00:10:53,444 --> 00:10:55,321 it was exciting. 171 00:10:55,404 --> 00:10:57,740 Sort of this treasure trove of information. 172 00:10:57,823 --> 00:10:59,075 But it also felt... 173 00:11:00,117 --> 00:11:01,661 It felt a little bit wrong. 174 00:11:01,744 --> 00:11:04,038 There is really personal stuff in those e-mails 175 00:11:04,121 --> 00:11:06,165 about Noel and his life and his family. 176 00:11:10,419 --> 00:11:11,419 You don't cheat? 177 00:11:11,462 --> 00:11:14,382 {\an8}No. Ironically, one of the major benefits of running this business is 178 00:11:14,465 --> 00:11:18,386 {\an8}if anyone should know what it takes to be in a successful relationship, it's me. 179 00:11:18,469 --> 00:11:21,931 {\an8}It's about communication. I talk about this topic 24/7. 180 00:11:22,014 --> 00:11:26,435 {\an8}My wife and I are honest with one another about what we need in our relationship. 181 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:29,689 Noel would put himself out there as a married man 182 00:11:29,772 --> 00:11:32,066 who claims to have never been cheating on his wife. 183 00:11:32,149 --> 00:11:36,112 {\an8}The point is that it's a business, and it's really separate from our life. 184 00:11:36,195 --> 00:11:37,988 {\an8}That's not the way you live your life? 185 00:11:38,072 --> 00:11:39,073 {\an8}Not at all. 186 00:11:40,366 --> 00:11:43,536 {\an8}Noel, the king of infidelity, who claims to not cheat on his wife, 187 00:11:43,619 --> 00:11:45,663 {\an8}absolute catnip for producers, 188 00:11:45,746 --> 00:11:47,790 {\an8}and media just ate it up. 189 00:11:48,999 --> 00:11:51,085 {\an8}- Are you married? - I am happily married. 190 00:11:51,168 --> 00:11:55,089 {\an8}I guess people find it ironic that I am in a monogamous marriage. 191 00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:03,973 But evidence came out in the e-mails fairly quickly that actually 192 00:12:04,473 --> 00:12:07,935 Noel had been having affairs with multiple women 193 00:12:08,018 --> 00:12:09,729 um, over a period of years. 194 00:12:17,111 --> 00:12:19,447 {\an8}It was a lot. A lot, lot. 195 00:12:20,948 --> 00:12:23,617 I think a lot of people felt it was ironic. 196 00:12:23,701 --> 00:12:26,620 The king of infidelity is cheating. 197 00:12:26,704 --> 00:12:29,749 Not... not a shock, but it went further. 198 00:12:30,708 --> 00:12:32,168 From Noel. 199 00:12:38,591 --> 00:12:41,635 It goes to this page, Victoria's Escort. 200 00:12:45,931 --> 00:12:47,266 That's nice. 201 00:12:48,809 --> 00:12:55,399 He was frequently contacting escort agencies and this and that. 202 00:12:56,442 --> 00:12:57,359 From Emma S. 203 00:12:57,443 --> 00:12:59,737 "Tell me what you're looking for in a sugar baby." 204 00:12:59,820 --> 00:13:01,697 {\an8}E-mail chain with Santiago Escorts. 205 00:13:01,781 --> 00:13:02,865 {\an8}Noel... 206 00:13:09,246 --> 00:13:10,456 It's upsetting to read. 207 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:17,171 Uh, it's upsetting to imagine his wife finding out about that in the media. 208 00:13:17,671 --> 00:13:20,966 {\an8}- What if your husband cheated on you? - I'd be devastated. 209 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,803 {\an8}Truth be told, I would be devastated. 210 00:13:26,138 --> 00:13:31,477 Noel had convinced her to go on billboards around North America. 211 00:13:32,728 --> 00:13:34,188 Taking her on The View, 212 00:13:34,271 --> 00:13:37,775 saying, "Well, we have a great marriage, and we don't cheat." 213 00:13:38,359 --> 00:13:40,694 And, uh, and it was all false. 214 00:13:41,904 --> 00:13:44,323 And I just felt devastated for her 215 00:13:45,449 --> 00:13:48,327 and... his kids. 216 00:14:00,714 --> 00:14:05,219 With this second dump, the hackers post this message saying, 217 00:14:05,302 --> 00:14:08,472 "Noel, you can admit this is real now." 218 00:14:09,348 --> 00:14:11,892 Taunting and intimidating him. 219 00:14:12,726 --> 00:14:13,894 Seeing that message 220 00:14:14,937 --> 00:14:19,859 showed me just how intimately linked these hackers somehow were to this target. 221 00:14:19,942 --> 00:14:23,028 They're not just targeting the company, they're targeting the CEO. 222 00:14:24,947 --> 00:14:29,368 Noel was, for me, a suspect until they released his e-mails. 223 00:14:29,952 --> 00:14:34,999 Because there was no point for him to release his own personal e-mails. 224 00:14:35,082 --> 00:14:37,543 So that was the end of that. 225 00:14:39,336 --> 00:14:42,715 They actually had a personal vendetta against Noel. 226 00:14:42,798 --> 00:14:45,342 They knew that it would fuck Noel up big-time. 227 00:14:45,426 --> 00:14:48,596 And they had a hate on for him, and they wanted him to suffer, 228 00:14:48,679 --> 00:14:49,763 and he did suffer. 229 00:15:06,739 --> 00:15:08,324 I'm driving in the car. 230 00:15:09,325 --> 00:15:10,826 You know, Nia beside me. 231 00:15:11,327 --> 00:15:12,995 I don't wanna look at Nia. 232 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,168 I gotta tell Nia more than what she knows, 233 00:15:19,251 --> 00:15:22,880 and I was trying so hard to find the strength. 234 00:15:24,673 --> 00:15:27,635 He was kind of nervous. I could see this about him. 235 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,557 My vision was really blurry, tryin' to s... see the road. 236 00:15:36,185 --> 00:15:38,103 It just started coming out, man, 237 00:15:38,187 --> 00:15:41,440 all the... all the betrayals from the very beginning. 238 00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:49,031 Massage parlors, strip clubs, those were easy access to that... 239 00:15:49,865 --> 00:15:52,242 To that pleasure that I wanted more of. 240 00:15:52,785 --> 00:15:57,581 And I thought having that extra sex outside of marriage would be exciting. 241 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,710 There was just this shock. 242 00:16:02,252 --> 00:16:06,423 He just proceeded for the next, I mean, few hours 243 00:16:06,507 --> 00:16:07,883 to tell me 244 00:16:08,842 --> 00:16:15,808 years of betrayals that he had acted out in our marriage. 245 00:16:17,059 --> 00:16:19,979 It was... it was like hell. 246 00:16:21,772 --> 00:16:26,026 I was flirting with various people that were kind of acquaintances to us. 247 00:16:26,110 --> 00:16:29,780 Two emotional relationships that I had. 248 00:16:29,863 --> 00:16:33,200 I was cheating on my wife with these people. 249 00:16:33,826 --> 00:16:37,454 The emotional betrayals, those were really hard on me 250 00:16:37,538 --> 00:16:39,832 because love is so important to me. 251 00:16:40,749 --> 00:16:44,837 I did come on to a couple of her friends who didn't reciprocate. 252 00:16:45,796 --> 00:16:48,382 He had pursued somebody that was special to me, 253 00:16:48,465 --> 00:16:51,385 and she just kind of cut herself out of my life. 254 00:16:52,886 --> 00:16:56,348 I lost this very close friend because of you. 255 00:16:56,432 --> 00:16:58,726 Um, it was a lot to face in a moment. 256 00:17:01,729 --> 00:17:03,647 I started reeling inside. 257 00:17:05,149 --> 00:17:06,066 Samuel! 258 00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:09,570 I felt like literally my world was, like, crumbling. 259 00:17:10,696 --> 00:17:12,281 She's pregnant. 260 00:17:12,364 --> 00:17:16,952 Every single aspect of my life up into this point felt like a lie. 261 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:19,288 - Thank you, sweetie. I love you. - I know. 262 00:17:20,414 --> 00:17:22,916 Everything that we have dreamed about. 263 00:17:24,626 --> 00:17:26,545 All of these very special... 264 00:17:27,504 --> 00:17:29,131 Our wedding day. 265 00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:33,719 The day we met. These moments that felt like... 266 00:17:33,802 --> 00:17:35,262 - Love you. - I love you too. 267 00:17:35,345 --> 00:17:37,264 ...time stood still for us. 268 00:17:39,391 --> 00:17:41,143 Suddenly it was just 269 00:17:42,394 --> 00:17:43,394 over. 270 00:17:52,446 --> 00:17:56,533 After the Impact Team released the internal e-mails 271 00:17:57,326 --> 00:17:58,952 from Noel and the company, 272 00:17:59,787 --> 00:18:04,249 then at that point our internal investigation stopped. 273 00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:08,337 So from the company's perspective, 274 00:18:09,046 --> 00:18:11,507 our services was not required anymore. 275 00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:15,844 I was quite disappointed that we didn't really get anywhere 276 00:18:15,928 --> 00:18:18,472 with nailing down a potential suspect. 277 00:18:19,348 --> 00:18:22,768 So we have a limited set of options to work with there. 278 00:18:22,851 --> 00:18:24,269 So we need the police. 279 00:18:32,027 --> 00:18:34,738 The cyber team from Europe, 280 00:18:35,739 --> 00:18:39,618 {\an8}their focus was the damage control more than anything. 281 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,704 {\an8}The police investigation was a criminal investigation 282 00:18:42,788 --> 00:18:45,374 because of the extortion that came along. 283 00:18:45,457 --> 00:18:48,127 And as a result of the data bein' released, 284 00:18:48,210 --> 00:18:50,129 people were takin' their lives. 285 00:18:52,172 --> 00:18:53,632 So the Toronto Police Service 286 00:18:53,715 --> 00:18:56,260 took the decision to have a press conference. 287 00:18:57,427 --> 00:19:00,472 I am well aware that the Impact Team hackers 288 00:19:00,556 --> 00:19:03,725 will be takin' an interest in this media conference. 289 00:19:03,809 --> 00:19:06,979 Therefore, I'm going to direct these comments to them. 290 00:19:07,062 --> 00:19:08,105 Team Impact, 291 00:19:08,772 --> 00:19:10,899 I want to make it very clear to you. 292 00:19:10,983 --> 00:19:15,070 Your actions are illegal and we will not be tolerated. 293 00:19:15,612 --> 00:19:16,947 This is your wake-up call. 294 00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:18,407 Got a phone call that morning 295 00:19:20,284 --> 00:19:21,493 from Ashley Madison. 296 00:19:21,577 --> 00:19:25,372 They offered a half a million dollars for a re... a reward. 297 00:19:27,833 --> 00:19:33,672 Today, I can confirm that Avid Life Media is offering a $500,000 reward 298 00:19:34,214 --> 00:19:35,924 to anyone providing information 299 00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:41,138 that leads the identification, arrest, and prosecution of the person or persons 300 00:19:41,221 --> 00:19:44,850 responsible for the leak of the Ashley Madison database. 301 00:19:44,933 --> 00:19:48,478 When you look at most police rewards or rewards that come out, 302 00:19:48,562 --> 00:19:51,523 ya know, they're like 25,000, 50,000. 303 00:19:51,607 --> 00:19:54,443 But when you drop half a million dollars on the table, 304 00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:56,528 that speaks volumes. 305 00:19:56,612 --> 00:19:58,405 Money always talks. 306 00:20:04,953 --> 00:20:07,789 Nothing was known about the Impact Team. 307 00:20:09,041 --> 00:20:12,669 I specialize in speaking to cybercriminals and hackers, 308 00:20:12,753 --> 00:20:15,547 and I've never heard of these guys before. 309 00:20:15,631 --> 00:20:17,424 I don't think any journalists have. 310 00:20:18,133 --> 00:20:21,094 I was determined to try to get ahold of them. 311 00:20:21,178 --> 00:20:24,139 People's lives were literally at risk now. 312 00:20:24,223 --> 00:20:30,145 I wanted to pull back the mask to understand why they're doing this. 313 00:20:34,858 --> 00:20:37,361 There are few ways to get a hacker to speak to you. 314 00:20:38,153 --> 00:20:40,322 You don't just send them a normal e-mail. 315 00:20:41,448 --> 00:20:46,495 You don't ask them for a phone number to call them on a normal cell phone. 316 00:20:48,121 --> 00:20:49,121 They won't do that. 317 00:20:49,164 --> 00:20:52,876 These are people who are wanted by, sometimes, federal law enforcement 318 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,795 from multiple different countries. 319 00:20:57,631 --> 00:20:59,132 I'm on the dark web, 320 00:20:59,216 --> 00:21:03,929 and I'd come across somebody who was speaking in quite specific detail 321 00:21:04,012 --> 00:21:06,515 about the hack and about the Impact Team. 322 00:21:06,598 --> 00:21:09,142 {\an8}So I reach out to them. 323 00:21:12,354 --> 00:21:16,316 Sure enough, they agree to pass over a message to the Impact Team. 324 00:21:17,901 --> 00:21:20,904 There was every chance they were just gonna tell me to fuck off. 325 00:21:22,030 --> 00:21:24,992 There was such a firestorm around this hack. 326 00:21:25,075 --> 00:21:28,245 Yet nobody had spoken to the Impact Team. 327 00:21:28,912 --> 00:21:32,624 If I could get them to talk to me, it would be huge. 328 00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:42,384 I get an e-mail. 329 00:21:42,467 --> 00:21:44,344 It looks like it's from the Impact Team. 330 00:21:45,429 --> 00:21:48,890 I can't quite believe that this is them. 331 00:22:16,293 --> 00:22:20,005 I think it was clear from the answers that they're sticking to their guns. 332 00:22:20,088 --> 00:22:22,799 "The site is misleading users, we're trying to expose that." 333 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,855 {\an8}So I started going through the second data dump, 334 00:22:37,647 --> 00:22:39,733 looking at Noel's e-mails, 335 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,360 corporate records. 336 00:22:41,860 --> 00:22:43,278 I wanted to find out 337 00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:47,824 if the Impact Team's claims about fraud was actually true or not. 338 00:22:49,242 --> 00:22:52,913 It became clear security seemed like an afterthought. 339 00:22:53,497 --> 00:22:56,083 Discussions that had a lot more effort put into them 340 00:22:56,166 --> 00:22:58,710 were more about branding, about PR, 341 00:22:58,794 --> 00:23:00,045 about spin. 342 00:23:01,630 --> 00:23:05,717 {\an8}We had all kinds of medals on our website 343 00:23:05,801 --> 00:23:10,222 {\an8}which gave the impression that, like, we were rock-solid, airtight. 344 00:23:10,305 --> 00:23:12,724 {\an8}There is a little gold medallion that said 345 00:23:12,808 --> 00:23:13,892 {\an8}"trusted security award." 346 00:23:15,852 --> 00:23:17,854 Turned out to have been totally made up. 347 00:23:17,938 --> 00:23:23,485 Somebody at the site must have made it using Photoshop or something like that. 348 00:23:24,778 --> 00:23:27,739 {\an8}The medals, that's embarrassing. 349 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,240 It's, uh... 350 00:23:30,075 --> 00:23:31,075 Yeah. 351 00:23:31,827 --> 00:23:33,912 It's complete misrepresentation. 352 00:23:35,622 --> 00:23:40,043 It just shows how sloppy Ashley Madison was. 353 00:23:41,211 --> 00:23:42,371 This hacking group says 354 00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:45,257 those customers who paid the fee to have their information deleted 355 00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:46,425 were lied to, 356 00:23:46,508 --> 00:23:49,094 and the company had secretly retained records, 357 00:23:49,177 --> 00:23:51,012 including their credit-card information. 358 00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:54,850 Ashley Madison advertised this extra paid-for feature 359 00:23:54,933 --> 00:23:57,394 where if you gave the company more money, 360 00:23:57,477 --> 00:23:59,604 they promised to completely wipe your account. 361 00:23:59,688 --> 00:24:02,357 There would be no evidence you ever used Ashley Madison. 362 00:24:03,733 --> 00:24:07,154 We would charge 20 bucks to customers 363 00:24:07,237 --> 00:24:13,869 to permanently delete any record of them ever being members of Ashley Madison. 364 00:24:17,164 --> 00:24:20,500 I thought the paid delete, in the beginning, was a great idea. 365 00:24:20,584 --> 00:24:23,170 Well, that brought in a lot of money. 366 00:24:23,253 --> 00:24:26,548 Like a couple million dollars in a very short period of time. 367 00:24:27,132 --> 00:24:31,261 What I didn't know was that we were charging, but we weren't doing it. 368 00:24:31,344 --> 00:24:34,181 There was no paid delete. Nothing was getting deleted. 369 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,854 Full delete not working as advertised. 370 00:24:40,937 --> 00:24:43,607 Yes, malicious and sketchy. 371 00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:46,860 Do I wish I had asked more questions? 372 00:24:46,943 --> 00:24:47,944 Sure. 373 00:24:48,028 --> 00:24:51,281 But it wouldn't even cross my mind to think, 374 00:24:51,364 --> 00:24:53,450 "Oh, are you actually deleting it?" 375 00:24:57,245 --> 00:25:00,957 If you promise users that you delete their information, 376 00:25:01,041 --> 00:25:02,459 you should absolutely do that. 377 00:25:02,542 --> 00:25:06,463 If you charge more money to then delete that information as well, 378 00:25:06,546 --> 00:25:09,424 obviously you should be doing that because it's a paid service. 379 00:25:09,925 --> 00:25:15,013 Ashley Madison were ripping off customers, and so I just kept digging. 380 00:25:16,556 --> 00:25:19,935 And I started to realize a lot more was gonna come out. 381 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:30,480 After Ashley Madison, my life just went on. 382 00:25:30,529 --> 00:25:33,490 I was just a stripper working in the nightclubs and stuff. 383 00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:41,873 One night I was working at the strip club, 384 00:25:42,457 --> 00:25:46,545 and this guy just pops in with flowers, and he comes up to talk to me. 385 00:25:47,754 --> 00:25:50,048 He was looking at me like he knew me, 386 00:25:50,131 --> 00:25:54,594 like I'm supposed to know him, and I didn't know who he was. 387 00:25:56,555 --> 00:25:58,181 I just thought this guy was a fan, 388 00:25:58,265 --> 00:26:01,268 and he figured out where I worked, and he came in there to meet me. 389 00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:09,317 So the second time it happened, it was, like, maybe a few weeks later. 390 00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:12,988 Okay, this is the second guy that's come up to me. 391 00:26:14,322 --> 00:26:16,700 And he was like he was my boyfriend, 392 00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:19,244 like he was just popping in at work to see me. 393 00:26:20,704 --> 00:26:22,372 Like, what is going on? 394 00:26:22,455 --> 00:26:23,582 Then I asked the guy, 395 00:26:23,665 --> 00:26:26,751 I'm like, "Hey, can you remind me how I know you?" 396 00:26:26,835 --> 00:26:28,670 "Do I know you from the club? How?" 397 00:26:28,753 --> 00:26:32,507 He's like, "Well, we talk on the website." "What are you talking about?" 398 00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:34,092 He's like, "Ashley Madison." 399 00:26:34,175 --> 00:26:37,470 I just looked at him, I'm like, "I'm not on the website." 400 00:26:37,554 --> 00:26:40,515 "I... I don't talk to anybody on there and that's not me." 401 00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:42,809 And just the look of just, like... 402 00:26:42,892 --> 00:26:45,270 It just washed over him, like he was scammed. 403 00:26:46,855 --> 00:26:48,773 "That's really not you I'm talking to." 404 00:26:48,857 --> 00:26:51,109 I'm like, "I swear to you, it's not me." 405 00:26:51,735 --> 00:26:53,945 Then a couple weeks later the third guy came in. 406 00:26:54,029 --> 00:26:56,448 It was just like, "I'm not on Ashley Madison." 407 00:26:56,531 --> 00:26:59,909 "That was not me you're talking to, I am so sorry," and it just all clicks. 408 00:27:01,661 --> 00:27:04,289 Something that was really kind of driven in hard 409 00:27:04,372 --> 00:27:06,499 was that I created a profile on Ashley Madison. 410 00:27:07,792 --> 00:27:09,794 Didn't think anything of it at the time. 411 00:27:09,878 --> 00:27:12,422 I put my picture on there, it's from my e-mail address. 412 00:27:13,548 --> 00:27:16,593 These guys have not only seen my profile on Ashley Madison, 413 00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:18,511 but actually think they're talking to me. 414 00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:22,557 There's somebody pretending they're me on that website. 415 00:27:23,475 --> 00:27:27,604 Is it mostly men looking to have an affair, or do women as well? 416 00:27:27,687 --> 00:27:30,106 Absolutely not. That's why it's called Ashley Madison. 417 00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,984 That's why our marketing is geared towards a lot of women, 418 00:27:33,068 --> 00:27:34,486 because you're seeing a change. 419 00:27:35,528 --> 00:27:39,824 You're seeing a changing tide. Women are behaving more and more like men. 420 00:27:39,908 --> 00:27:42,410 {\an8}The company was always saying, 421 00:27:42,494 --> 00:27:46,331 "We have so many women on our site, our ratio of women to men is amazing." 422 00:27:46,915 --> 00:27:48,708 Infidelity's on the rise for females, 423 00:27:48,792 --> 00:27:50,001 but they don't equal men. 424 00:27:50,085 --> 00:27:53,963 {\an8}It's still about 40% female, 60% male in most regions. 425 00:27:56,633 --> 00:27:59,177 Did we question how many women were on the site? 426 00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:02,222 I think probably we all could've questioned a bit more 427 00:28:02,305 --> 00:28:04,974 whether some of these claims were too good to be true. 428 00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:17,696 A lot of men may have been exposed at the very least as wannabe cheaters 429 00:28:17,779 --> 00:28:20,240 as a result of the Ashley Madison hack. 430 00:28:20,323 --> 00:28:21,449 What about the women? 431 00:28:21,533 --> 00:28:24,035 {\an8}It turns out that Ashley Madison's members, 432 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,787 {\an8}as many people suspected, 433 00:28:25,870 --> 00:28:28,289 {\an8}were not just overwhelmingly male, 434 00:28:28,373 --> 00:28:33,336 {\an8}but the women in many cases may simply have not existed. 435 00:28:33,420 --> 00:28:35,672 One of the most compelling pieces of evidence 436 00:28:35,755 --> 00:28:37,549 that these were fake profiles 437 00:28:37,632 --> 00:28:40,552 is that they were all coming from the same IP address, 438 00:28:40,635 --> 00:28:42,470 from the Ashley Madison office. 439 00:28:43,054 --> 00:28:46,766 Either tens of thousands of women were coming to the Ashley Madison office 440 00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:49,060 to look for men to find affairs with, 441 00:28:49,144 --> 00:28:53,398 or somebody in the office was creating these fake profiles. 442 00:28:56,609 --> 00:28:59,487 {\an8}We knew there were fake profiles on the site. 443 00:28:59,571 --> 00:29:01,072 It wasn't a secret to us. 444 00:29:02,991 --> 00:29:07,245 We were given profiles that were empty, with photos. 445 00:29:07,328 --> 00:29:11,124 We just had to finish filling out their profile content. 446 00:29:11,207 --> 00:29:15,378 We kinda had a sense of what people were looking for and what was... 447 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,760 um, you know, sexually attractive to men. 448 00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:28,391 Who's out there looking at these women? 449 00:29:28,475 --> 00:29:30,185 Men, right? 450 00:29:30,268 --> 00:29:32,771 "I wanna go to this site that's full of all these women 451 00:29:32,854 --> 00:29:37,358 who are eagerly waiting for a guy like me to have an affair with." 452 00:29:37,442 --> 00:29:40,487 "Let me bust out my credit card..." "...and give you all my money." 453 00:29:41,529 --> 00:29:44,365 We are 100% committed to an organic community. 454 00:29:44,449 --> 00:29:46,201 {\an8}There is no communication, zero, 455 00:29:46,284 --> 00:29:48,745 {\an8}you'll ever have on Ashley Madison with another member, 456 00:29:48,828 --> 00:29:52,373 {\an8}that isn't anything other than organic, and by "organic," we mean true and real. 457 00:29:52,457 --> 00:29:53,833 {\an8}Hundred percent legitimate. 458 00:29:53,917 --> 00:29:57,170 {\an8}There's a big gap between what Noel would say... 459 00:29:58,254 --> 00:30:02,592 ...and, ya know, the things that the site actually did in practice. 460 00:30:02,675 --> 00:30:05,178 Gizmodo's Annalee Newitz dug deeper, 461 00:30:05,261 --> 00:30:08,431 looking at who the men were actually meeting online. 462 00:30:08,515 --> 00:30:13,937 {\an8}I think most of them were probably either talking to Ashley Madison employees 463 00:30:14,020 --> 00:30:18,107 {\an8}or just interacting with automated bots on the site 464 00:30:18,191 --> 00:30:20,109 {\an8}that were sending them automatic mail. 465 00:30:25,198 --> 00:30:28,827 "I'm bored at work. Up for some sexy chat? XO." 466 00:30:30,328 --> 00:30:34,123 The robots, the bots, we knew they were there. 467 00:30:34,207 --> 00:30:38,545 They were there to engage with our male profiles. 468 00:30:41,256 --> 00:30:43,341 When the second data dump came out, 469 00:30:44,425 --> 00:30:49,097 it became clear that Ashley Madison was using fake profiles 470 00:30:49,180 --> 00:30:52,308 to actually communicate with its users. 471 00:30:52,392 --> 00:30:56,688 When some users would message who they thought was a human, 472 00:30:56,771 --> 00:30:59,065 they were actually speaking to bots. 473 00:30:59,566 --> 00:31:02,735 There's a difference between bots and fake profiles. 474 00:31:02,819 --> 00:31:05,280 A bot is also a fake profile, 475 00:31:05,905 --> 00:31:08,908 but it's hooked up to some artificial intelligence, 476 00:31:08,992 --> 00:31:12,328 and the bot would send the first e-mail. 477 00:31:12,912 --> 00:31:16,124 And I was told that is basically 478 00:31:16,207 --> 00:31:18,459 because most of the men that joined the site 479 00:31:18,543 --> 00:31:20,837 are reluctant and shy, 480 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,300 but they will reply to... to a message. 481 00:31:25,383 --> 00:31:29,178 The members don't know that this bot is... is not a real person 482 00:31:29,262 --> 00:31:33,266 or that this bot is busy sending 10,000 messages that day, 483 00:31:34,309 --> 00:31:37,520 and then, ya know, getting 10,000 replies. 484 00:31:37,604 --> 00:31:41,983 Men had to pay money to then read these messages 485 00:31:42,066 --> 00:31:43,902 and engage with these accounts. 486 00:31:43,985 --> 00:31:49,282 I mean, that shows predatory behavior from Ashley Madison. 487 00:31:49,365 --> 00:31:53,244 Not only are you getting people to sign up and misleading them, 488 00:31:53,328 --> 00:31:56,247 you're then charging them for the privilege of being lied to. 489 00:31:57,123 --> 00:32:01,794 The bot profile lines read like a male fantasy 490 00:32:01,878 --> 00:32:04,881 of how you would want the women on the site to talk to you. 491 00:32:05,423 --> 00:32:07,258 Women were the product, 492 00:32:07,342 --> 00:32:11,930 but mostly the fantasy of the idea of women was the product. 493 00:32:12,013 --> 00:32:14,891 An average male user of Ashley Madison 494 00:32:14,974 --> 00:32:18,770 was talking into the void... ...to these fake bots, 495 00:32:18,853 --> 00:32:21,898 racking up hundreds of dollars worth of credit-card bills 496 00:32:21,981 --> 00:32:23,608 and risking his marriage to do it. 497 00:32:23,691 --> 00:32:25,526 It paints a pretty sad picture. 498 00:32:38,373 --> 00:32:41,542 I think during that period of time 499 00:32:41,626 --> 00:32:45,296 after the second release of hacked information, 500 00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:47,465 it was exhausting. 501 00:32:48,508 --> 00:32:51,594 I wanted to get into bed and pull the sheets over my head, 502 00:32:51,678 --> 00:32:53,638 and put on The Golden Girls. 503 00:32:55,264 --> 00:32:57,058 And I remember thinking, 504 00:32:57,725 --> 00:32:59,936 "What else is... Am I gonna find out?" 505 00:33:03,856 --> 00:33:07,151 There was a general meeting for the whole company. 506 00:33:07,235 --> 00:33:09,237 Someone from the board had come in 507 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,657 to let us know that there was gonna be replacements. 508 00:33:13,616 --> 00:33:14,867 And there was. 509 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:22,041 The board said Noel would no longer be coming back. 510 00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:25,670 Well, I was surprised, 'cause I didn't know. 511 00:33:27,672 --> 00:33:29,882 And that was it. It was quick. 512 00:33:32,719 --> 00:33:34,971 {\an8}The Impact Team got what they wanted. 513 00:33:35,054 --> 00:33:37,223 {\an8}They released all the information. 514 00:33:38,016 --> 00:33:39,350 {\an8}Cost millions. 515 00:33:39,434 --> 00:33:42,145 {\an8}They cut off Ashley Madison at the knees. 516 00:33:42,854 --> 00:33:46,941 {\an8}And then you've got the scumbag king of infidelity, 517 00:33:47,025 --> 00:33:48,818 {\an8}'cause that's what he became, 518 00:33:48,901 --> 00:33:51,529 {\an8}CEO of Ashley Madison who's completely disgraced. 519 00:33:53,656 --> 00:33:55,742 He was blamed for everything. 520 00:33:56,743 --> 00:34:00,455 I kind of felt for him because he took the fall. 521 00:34:02,749 --> 00:34:07,420 I think that he felt that day that he had hit rock bottom. 522 00:34:08,504 --> 00:34:12,050 Noel leaving, this is completely catastrophic. 523 00:34:12,133 --> 00:34:16,471 At that point, we didn't know if Ashley Madison would survive. 524 00:34:17,638 --> 00:34:20,308 Nobody else knows this business better than him. 525 00:34:20,391 --> 00:34:22,435 Shit, that guy built this company. 526 00:34:22,518 --> 00:34:23,728 We're fucked. 527 00:34:35,823 --> 00:34:39,869 We mutually decided that Sam would stay somewhere else for a period of time. 528 00:34:39,952 --> 00:34:41,287 We just said, "For now." 529 00:34:43,456 --> 00:34:44,874 I needed space. 530 00:34:44,957 --> 00:34:47,126 I just couldn't be in the same room with him. 531 00:34:47,668 --> 00:34:48,668 That was hard, 532 00:34:49,128 --> 00:34:50,922 to... to leave my kids 533 00:34:51,005 --> 00:34:54,300 and to think that that may be my new way of life. 534 00:34:56,636 --> 00:35:00,181 We had to take our daughter to her first day of kindergarten, 535 00:35:00,264 --> 00:35:03,142 and we're both there taking pictures separately, 536 00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:05,186 and being there and seeing 537 00:35:05,269 --> 00:35:08,564 what their lives will look like completely without me. 538 00:35:09,232 --> 00:35:10,858 And that was really hard. 539 00:35:13,236 --> 00:35:15,530 It was all so painful to watch. 540 00:35:15,613 --> 00:35:19,450 Just seeing the destruction of what I'd... I'd chosen to do. 541 00:35:23,454 --> 00:35:26,541 I told him he's just like every man that I was trying to avoid. 542 00:35:26,624 --> 00:35:29,377 Like, what was the point of trying to find a Christian man? 543 00:35:29,877 --> 00:35:34,173 Something that I've had to wrestle with was just that I'm not enough for him. 544 00:35:34,924 --> 00:35:39,428 This relationship, none of it has ever been enough. Like... 545 00:35:39,512 --> 00:35:43,558 And I... I worked so hard to be what I thought he wanted. 546 00:35:46,144 --> 00:35:49,188 I wasn't gonna give up. I was gonna do whatever it took, 547 00:35:50,064 --> 00:35:52,942 and fight tooth and nail for this marriage. 548 00:35:54,485 --> 00:35:57,572 I expressed my remorse 549 00:35:57,655 --> 00:36:00,324 and my regret day after day. 550 00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:04,829 Every single day confessing how much I... I love her. 551 00:36:07,248 --> 00:36:09,167 I wanted it to work so badly. 552 00:36:11,169 --> 00:36:15,464 In order to really even take one tiny, mini baby step forward, 553 00:36:15,548 --> 00:36:18,050 it would require us to... to really sit down 554 00:36:18,134 --> 00:36:21,888 and have some really hard, deep conversations 555 00:36:21,971 --> 00:36:24,557 to find out what was real and what was not real. 556 00:36:28,060 --> 00:36:30,229 But I didn't really wanna fix it. 557 00:36:30,813 --> 00:36:32,607 I did not want to reconcile. 558 00:36:35,902 --> 00:36:38,196 At that point, I felt like it was over. 559 00:36:55,421 --> 00:36:58,442 With the press conference, I thought we were gonna get a lot of calls 560 00:36:58,466 --> 00:36:59,383 and we didn't. 561 00:36:59,467 --> 00:37:01,761 I was totally surprised. 562 00:37:03,554 --> 00:37:07,225 Half a million dollars in someone's pocket would be very nice, 563 00:37:07,308 --> 00:37:09,101 but there was nothing, not even a bite. 564 00:37:09,185 --> 00:37:11,520 Not even a Crime Stoppers tip about it or nothing. 565 00:37:14,065 --> 00:37:17,735 The hackers, well, they call themselves the Impact Team. 566 00:37:19,195 --> 00:37:20,988 I personally think that, uh, 567 00:37:21,822 --> 00:37:23,574 "team" was an exaggeration. 568 00:37:24,450 --> 00:37:26,452 That was probably one person. 569 00:37:26,535 --> 00:37:31,332 Uh, and the reason being for that, 'cause when there was the $500,000 reward. 570 00:37:31,415 --> 00:37:35,253 Usually when you have a team, somebody breaks from the team, 571 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,422 and the money becomes more important. 572 00:37:40,341 --> 00:37:44,762 Haven't heard anything about Impact Team before or since. 573 00:37:44,845 --> 00:37:49,058 It's incredibly unusual for a hacking group to materialize, 574 00:37:49,141 --> 00:37:51,602 do one job, and then disappear. 575 00:37:52,186 --> 00:37:54,563 I can't think of another case where that happened. 576 00:37:54,647 --> 00:37:59,318 The Impact Team was just a creation for this communication. 577 00:37:59,902 --> 00:38:03,698 I think it was never a real team behind that. 578 00:38:03,781 --> 00:38:05,825 There were a lot of clues that 579 00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:10,079 were leading us to believe that it was an insider. 580 00:38:11,622 --> 00:38:15,751 The Impact Team named a number of, ya know, high-ranking executives 581 00:38:15,835 --> 00:38:18,004 in some of the communications they put out. 582 00:38:18,087 --> 00:38:20,548 Ya know, why would they know those people's names 583 00:38:20,631 --> 00:38:24,260 unless they had some sort of personal or work connection? 584 00:38:25,052 --> 00:38:28,472 I don't think anybody ever got particularly close 585 00:38:28,556 --> 00:38:30,182 to figuring out who did it. 586 00:38:32,977 --> 00:38:34,770 The investigation, you know... 587 00:38:34,854 --> 00:38:39,358 Eventually the task force was shut down because there's no new leads. 588 00:38:39,942 --> 00:38:40,943 There was nothin'. 589 00:38:42,737 --> 00:38:45,823 No evidence or any information 590 00:38:45,906 --> 00:38:48,409 received by any law-enforcement group 591 00:38:48,909 --> 00:38:52,371 who was involved in the Ashley Madison hack. 592 00:38:52,872 --> 00:38:56,751 Nobody has identified anyone from the Impact Team. 593 00:38:58,919 --> 00:39:01,172 Speculating about who might've done it 594 00:39:01,255 --> 00:39:03,132 is part of the fun of this story. 595 00:39:03,215 --> 00:39:04,717 It's a giant whodunit. 596 00:39:05,343 --> 00:39:08,512 Everyone on the planet had a motive to take Ashley Madison down. 597 00:39:10,639 --> 00:39:11,807 {\an8}As of this morning 598 00:39:11,891 --> 00:39:14,393 {\an8}at least eight people in the US are suing the site, 599 00:39:14,477 --> 00:39:16,520 {\an8}saying Ashley Madison failed to take, quote, 600 00:39:16,604 --> 00:39:19,315 {\an8}"Reasonable steps to protect the security of its users." 601 00:39:19,398 --> 00:39:23,110 {\an8}They actually didn't follow through on what their promises were, 602 00:39:23,194 --> 00:39:27,156 {\an8}and I'm glad that hopefully some people will get some justice in this case. 603 00:39:31,077 --> 00:39:32,203 After the hack, 604 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,375 disgruntled users of the site did file a class-action lawsuit. 605 00:39:38,667 --> 00:39:42,630 Ashley Madison had to pay users $11 million. 606 00:39:43,923 --> 00:39:46,467 That doesn't remove their data from the Internet. 607 00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:53,391 People killed themselves over this data breach. 608 00:39:54,850 --> 00:39:58,687 I absolutely think the Impact Team is at least partly to blame 609 00:39:58,771 --> 00:40:02,441 for the suicide of anybody who was in that dump. 610 00:40:04,693 --> 00:40:07,405 The Impact Team took a decision to release that information, 611 00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:09,073 and they are responsible 612 00:40:09,156 --> 00:40:12,159 for all of the consequences that come from that, 613 00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:14,578 as well as Ashley Madison. 614 00:40:17,456 --> 00:40:19,917 Everyone was saying this company is done. 615 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,294 Why would anyone ever sign up for the site again? 616 00:40:23,254 --> 00:40:29,885 Its reputation has been, ya know, slammed on every country around the world. 617 00:40:30,928 --> 00:40:33,347 I did not see how it could come back from this. 618 00:40:45,526 --> 00:40:48,654 Eventually, Nia agreed to do marital counseling with me. 619 00:40:48,737 --> 00:40:50,948 So we sit down with my pastor and his wife. 620 00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:58,247 I really wanted to, like, hear somebody, like, lay into him, 621 00:40:58,330 --> 00:41:00,958 and someone to, like, be on my side. 622 00:41:02,334 --> 00:41:05,129 It was very difficult and very emotional, 623 00:41:05,212 --> 00:41:07,882 and she was very honest in those early, uh, meetings. 624 00:41:07,965 --> 00:41:10,885 She said, "I don't know what will happen, if this is repairable." 625 00:41:12,845 --> 00:41:18,142 I think it was very good for him to feel the weight of what he had done... 626 00:41:20,436 --> 00:41:24,732 and feeling the true threat of losing everything he loved most. 627 00:41:26,317 --> 00:41:31,238 He was able to begin really dealing with the depths that he had gone to, 628 00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:33,574 and the dark places that he had traveled. 629 00:41:36,494 --> 00:41:39,997 I started to really think about selfish decisions I made. 630 00:41:41,207 --> 00:41:43,459 Lookin' back, I realized it was all about me. 631 00:41:43,542 --> 00:41:45,211 I'm not thinkin' about Nia. 632 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,422 That was not how I was gonna live anymore. 633 00:41:50,216 --> 00:41:54,845 I was just hoping she would see that this wasn't just a confessional, 634 00:41:54,929 --> 00:41:56,972 that this was a... a repentance. 635 00:41:57,056 --> 00:41:59,600 It was a turnaround, it was a complete change. 636 00:42:01,852 --> 00:42:06,148 Seeing all the responsibility Sam took for everything he had done, 637 00:42:06,232 --> 00:42:10,402 the hours of... of counseling and conversation that he sat through, 638 00:42:10,486 --> 00:42:12,446 no matter how mad I was at what he had done, 639 00:42:12,530 --> 00:42:14,698 I could still see this shift that happened in him. 640 00:42:15,658 --> 00:42:19,495 Yes, the betrayals were out, but so was the real Sam. 641 00:42:19,578 --> 00:42:22,665 Like, "This is me and all my flaws too." 642 00:42:26,335 --> 00:42:30,631 It's heartbreaking to love someone so much, 643 00:42:30,714 --> 00:42:34,718 to the point where, like, you don't know if it's good for you anymore or not, 644 00:42:34,802 --> 00:42:36,845 and you have... I had to sit down and find out. 645 00:42:54,029 --> 00:42:55,030 You look good. 646 00:42:55,114 --> 00:42:56,824 Trust me, babe, we'll get there. 647 00:42:56,907 --> 00:42:58,450 - That's good. - Can see it. 648 00:42:58,534 --> 00:43:00,494 - That's good. - Yeah. 649 00:43:03,747 --> 00:43:06,875 Nia, she decided she would give me a second chance. 650 00:43:08,752 --> 00:43:11,463 Falling deeply in love is beautiful. 651 00:43:12,715 --> 00:43:18,137 But I've learned continuing to be deeply in love takes work. 652 00:43:20,264 --> 00:43:22,641 There's a lot of things I really do regret, 653 00:43:23,142 --> 00:43:26,103 but I don't regret, you know, the hack. 654 00:43:26,186 --> 00:43:28,939 It had to happen for where we're at today. 655 00:43:32,234 --> 00:43:35,195 What Sam did and what we walked through has left a mark. 656 00:43:35,279 --> 00:43:38,949 It's left a permanent mark, but I'm thankful for it. 657 00:43:39,033 --> 00:43:41,285 It's kind of like a starting point for us 658 00:43:41,368 --> 00:43:43,662 on how we'll live the rest of our marriage. 659 00:43:58,344 --> 00:43:59,344 I think 660 00:44:00,596 --> 00:44:04,642 cheating is a natural human way to just find excitement 661 00:44:04,725 --> 00:44:06,393 or find somethin' else 662 00:44:07,728 --> 00:44:11,649 to tolerate the life you have given yourself 663 00:44:11,732 --> 00:44:14,068 without destroying your foundation. 664 00:44:15,778 --> 00:44:20,282 It's just a shame that the couples can't talk to each other about it. 665 00:44:22,451 --> 00:44:24,953 I believe you should be honest with your partner 666 00:44:25,037 --> 00:44:26,288 and obviously be upfront. 667 00:44:27,206 --> 00:44:29,625 If two people wanna have an open marriage 668 00:44:29,708 --> 00:44:32,169 and both want to go outside of marriage for something, 669 00:44:32,252 --> 00:44:33,253 more power to 'em. 670 00:44:34,129 --> 00:44:37,132 But when one person's going behind the other person's back, 671 00:44:37,216 --> 00:44:38,842 sneaking and going on dating apps, 672 00:44:38,926 --> 00:44:42,137 that's definitely gonna cause a problem in the relationship. 673 00:44:43,555 --> 00:44:46,892 {\an8}What we wanna do in this culture today, 674 00:44:46,975 --> 00:44:50,813 {\an8}is somebody makes one mistake or says one thing, 675 00:44:50,896 --> 00:44:52,314 {\an8}and we wanna write them off. 676 00:44:55,150 --> 00:45:00,948 The people who were poring over that list in the Ashley Madison leak, 677 00:45:01,031 --> 00:45:02,658 the witch hunt, 678 00:45:02,741 --> 00:45:05,619 there's just a self-righteousness in that. 679 00:45:07,204 --> 00:45:11,291 But the truth is we all have a list that we're on 680 00:45:11,375 --> 00:45:15,379 that is something that we're not proud of, that is our secret. 681 00:45:18,799 --> 00:45:22,553 People wanna know what's going on in everyone else's sex life. 682 00:45:22,636 --> 00:45:23,887 I think it's that simple. 683 00:45:23,971 --> 00:45:26,306 You wanna know if your neighbor's having an affair, 684 00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:29,643 you wanna know if your favorite celebrity is having an affair, 685 00:45:29,727 --> 00:45:33,230 or you wanna know what politicians are doing in the bedroom. 686 00:45:34,148 --> 00:45:36,692 This whole story is so incredible. 687 00:45:38,068 --> 00:45:43,949 If somebody wrote it as a fictional novel, you'd say it's too incredible to believe. 688 00:45:47,828 --> 00:45:49,628 How do you guys feel about the fact 689 00:45:49,663 --> 00:45:52,082 that Ashley Madison is actually still going? 690 00:45:52,166 --> 00:45:54,501 Oh it is still going? I didn't realize that. 691 00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:56,712 I didn't realize Ashley Madison was still going. 692 00:45:56,795 --> 00:45:59,673 It's an evil on a whole different level, in my opinion. 693 00:46:07,306 --> 00:46:09,558 The hack was 2015. 694 00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:11,769 I left in 2017. 695 00:46:12,311 --> 00:46:17,608 It just became a corporate place to work. 696 00:46:17,691 --> 00:46:21,737 It was not the same and very boring. 697 00:46:26,241 --> 00:46:29,578 It doesn't surprise me that it's still around today. 698 00:46:30,829 --> 00:46:32,623 For me, I don't judge. 699 00:46:32,706 --> 00:46:34,291 I understand that people think, 700 00:46:34,374 --> 00:46:39,421 "I only have one life to live, and I'm happy with my wife, 701 00:46:40,422 --> 00:46:43,425 but I also wanna fuck that 23-year-old." 702 00:46:43,509 --> 00:46:44,676 I get it. 703 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,764 Sometimes I see some hotties and I'd be like, "That would be fun." 704 00:46:49,348 --> 00:46:51,767 But I think your sex is just better 705 00:46:51,850 --> 00:46:54,728 if it's built on something that means something. 706 00:46:56,104 --> 00:46:58,565 Ashley Madison taught me 707 00:46:58,649 --> 00:47:01,610 that there will always be people who cheat. 708 00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:05,322 I always say that as long as men have penises, 709 00:47:05,405 --> 00:47:09,076 Ashley Madison will always be in business.